Eve Fitz Warine

  Information about this person:

• From Gen-Medieval Archives: Ancestry of Thomas de London, lord of Kidwelly . ¹⁹³ From: "Douglas Richardson royalancestry@msn.com" <royalancestry@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Ancestry of Thomas de London, lord of Kidwelly?
Date: 27 Jan 2005 06:12:46 -0800

Dear Roger ~

My research indicates that Hawise de London, wife of Patrick de Chaworth, was the heiress of Mabel de Cantelowe in 1267, but no relationship is specified in the record. As such, unless further documentation is forthcoming, I believe it is overly optimistic to identify Hawise de London as Mabel de Cantelowe's granddaughter on the basis of this record alone. It is certainly possible that Mabel de Cantelowe was Hawise de London's paternal grandmother, but it is equally possible that Mabel was Hawise's paternal aunt or cousin, or a younger 2nd wife of her grandfather. Also, I hasten to point out that Cantelowe was not necessarily Mabel's maiden name. Rather, unless she was from a particularly lofty pedigree, the surname Cantelowe is probably Mabel's married name at the time of her death, not her maiden name. If anyone has additional records which would shed light on Mabel de Cantelowe' kinship to Hawise de London, I would appreciate hearing from them here on the newsgroup.

Elsewhere, I note that you have identified Hawise de London's mother, Eve, as a possible daughter of Matthew de Torrington. This allegation is doubtless derived from the usually reliable work, English Baronies, by Sanders. Sanders showed that Eve's son by her 1^st marriage, Henry de Tracy, had a one fifth share of the Torrington estates. On this basis, good people such as Mr. Weber have postulated that Henry de Tracy's mother was a Torrington heiress. However, this is a rare instance of where a person bought his interest and did not inherit it, which fact Sanders overlooked. As such, there is no descent whatsoever from the Torrington family. Rather, Eve's maritagium appears to have been an estate in Westbury, Wiltshire which she held of the Fitz Warn family. As such, she was almost certainly the daughter of Fulk Fitz Warin, of Whittington, Shropshire, by his wife, Hawise de Dinan. The given name Eve ran in the Fitz Warin family.

I further note that your post makes no mention of Hawise de London's childless first marriage to Walter de Brewes, younger son of William de Brewes by his wife, Maud, daughter of Richard de Clare, Earl of Hertford. In Michaelmas term 1233 Walter and Hawise were suing the abbot of Gloucester for the church of Hannington, Wiltshire. Walter de Brewes died before 14 January 1234.

Eve married Sir Thomas de Londres Lord of Kidwelly, son of William Londres and Unknown. (Sir Thomas de Londres Lord of Kidwelly was born in Kidwelly, Carmarthen, Wales and died before 1221 in Kidwelly, Carmarthen, Wales.)

Eve next married Oliver de Tracy, son of Gervase de Courtenay and Lady de Tracy.