Emma de Cauz
- Born: Abt 1212, Shalbourne, Wilshire, England
- Marriage: Sir John de Grey Knight 141,193,1036
- Died: Bef 1256, Sandiacre, Derbyshire, England
Information about this person:
• Background Information. 193 From: "Douglas Richardson" <email@example.com>
Subject: Yet Another C.P. Correction: Emme de Glanville,alleged wife of Sir John de Grey
Date: 21 Dec 2006 15:49:38 -0800
Dear Newsgroup ~
[Edited due to length, rest of post can be found on the GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives.]
Furthermore, I find that Complete Peerage, 6 (1926): 171 (sub Grey of Wilton) shows that the 1371 pleadings are incorrect in yet another matter, namely, the parentage of Reynold (or Reginald) de Grey, son and heir of John de Grey. In the 1371 pleadings, Reynold is made to be the son of John de Grey, by Emme de Glanville. Complete Peerage, on the other hand, states that Reynold de Grey was the son and heir of Sir John de Grey of Shirland, Derbyshire "by his 2nd wife, Emma, apparently widow of John de Segrave, who d.s.p. 1230, and daughter of Roger de Cauz, by Nichole, daughter and heiress of Bartholomew de Leigh." As evidence that Sir Reynold de Grey was the son of Emme de Cauz, not Emme de Glanville, Complete Peerage states the following:
"All the manors, whether derived from the families of de Leigh or de Cauz, to which this Emma was heiress are found in the tenure of John de Grey or of his descendants shortly afterwards."
Given that the 1371 pleadings are so flawed and of such late date, it seems best that the 1312 version of the descent of the Glanville estates be preferred. And, in the 1312 lawsuit, Emme de Glanville enfeoffed John de Grey with her purparty, that is all.
Lastly, I might point out if Emme de Glanville had truly been the mother of Emme de Grey, wife of Sir William de Huntingfield, then Emme de Grey's brother, Reynold de Grey, would not have needed to have confirm his father's grant of Emme de Glanville's property to his sister. Rather, this would have been Emme de Grey's inheritance from her own mother. But, Reynold would have had to confirm the grant of his father, if Reynold de Grey and his sister, Emme, were both children of Sir John de Grey's wife, Emme de Cauz, which appears to be the case.
I conclude therefore that Sir John de Grey of Shirland, Derbyshire (died 1266) had but two wives. His first wife, to whom he married in or after 1230, was Emme de Cauz, widow of John de Segrave, daughter and heiress of Roger de Cauz, as stated by Complete Peerage. Emme de Cauz was the mother of Sir John de Grey's son and heir, Reynold, and presumably another son, John, as well as two daughters, Emme (wife of Sir William de Huntingfield) and Nichole (wife of Robert de Tateshale). Sir John de Grey subsequently married (2nd) at London 17 October 1251 Joan le Esquire, widow of Paul Peyvre, King's Steward, and daughter of Thomas le Esquire, of Tideswell and Weston, Derbyshire. His wife, Joan, died at Leyham in 1256, and was buried at Woburn, Bedfordshire.
As for concrete evidence of Sir John de Grey's marriage with Emma de Cauz, widow of John de Segrave, Mr. Fowler shows that the custody of the lands of Roger de Cauz was granted in 1227 to Stephen de Segrave, whose son John had married Roger's daughter, saving the dower of Roger's widow, Nichole. "The immediate heir of Roger [de Cauz]'s lands was certainly his daughter Emma then wife of John son of Stephen de Segrave; in 1230 she was left a widow and her father-in-law had wardship of her marriage and lands." [Reference: G. Herbert Fowler, "A Digest of the Charters Preserved in the Cartulary of Dunstable," in Publications of the Bedfordshire Historical Society, volume 10 (1926), pg. 295]. Mr. Fowler subsequently located the record of "a grant by Stephen de Segrave to John de Grey, with Emma widow of John de Segrave, of all her land of Henlow by way of dower," thus proving that John de Grey's wife was in fact Emme de Cauz [Reference: G. Herbert Fowler, "Cartulary of the Abbey of Old Wardon," in Publications of the Bedfordshire Historical Society, volume 13 (1930), pg. 340].
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
• Background Information. 821
Sir William Huntingfeild married, sometime before 1260, Emme de Grey, daughter of Sir John de Grey and Emme, daughter and heir of Roger de Cauz.
~Richardson's Magna Charta Ancestry, p. 448
• Background Information. 1036
Emma, daughter of Nichola de Legh and Roger de Cauz, married first, John de Segrave, who died about 1230, when her marriage was granted to her father-in-law Stephen de Segrave. She married as her second husband, John de Grey, and was probably dead before 1256, when her the manor of Hemingford was settled on her second husband and their son Reginald. John de Grey died in 1266.
~A History of the County of Huntingdon: Volume 2, pp. 309-314
• Background Information. 141
Sir John Grey, of Shirland, died shortly before 18 Mar 1265/6. He married Emma, apparently the widow of John de Segrave, and daughter of Roger de Cauz, by Nichole, daughter and heir of Bartholomew de Leigh.
~ Cokayne's Complete Peerage, 2nd Edition, Vol. VI, (Grey), pp. 171-172
Emma married Sir John de Grey Knight, son of Henry de Grey and Isolde Bardolf 141,193.,1036 (Sir John de Grey Knight was born about 1212 in Grays Thurrock, Essex, england and died in Mar 1266 in Shirland, Derbyshire, England.)