arrow arrow arrow arrow
Richard Fitz Eustace Baron of Halton
(-1163)
Jane le Bigod
Aubrey de Vere Sheriff of London and Middlesex, Lord Hedington
(Abt 1090-1141)
Adeliza de Clare
(Abt 1092-Abt 1163)
Roger Fitz Richard 1st Lord of Warkworth
(Abt 1135-1177)
Alice de Vere
(Bef 1141-After 1185)
Alice de Vere
(Abt 1155-After 1190)

 

Family Links

Spouses/Children:
John Fitz Richard Baron of Halton, Constable of Cheshire

Alice de Vere

  • Born: Abt 1155, Rayleigh, Rochford, Essex, England
  • Marriage: John Fitz Richard Baron of Halton, Constable of Cheshire 726
  • Died: After 1190

bullet   Another name for Alice was Alice Fitz Roger.

bullet  Information about this person:

• Background Information. 141
Alice de Vere, wife of John the Constable of Chester, was the daughter of Alice de Essex, the sister of the 1st Earl of Oxford, almost certainly by her 2nd husband, Roger Fitz Richard. Alice styled herself as "Alice de Vere," using her mother's name.

~ Cokayne's Complete Peerage, 2nd Edition, Vol. X, (Appendix J), p. 118

• From Gen-Medieval Archives: Alice de Vere. 193 From: "Chris Phillips" <cgp100@cgp100.dabsol.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Constable connections (Alice de Vere)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:30:18 +0100

Kevan L. Barton wrote:
> John de Lacy succeeded to the baronies of Halton and Pontefract, with the
> Constableship of Chester he was also lord of Flamborough. He founded the
> monastery of Hanlow, and was buried there in 1211. He married Alice de
> Vere
, sister of William de Mandeville. What is the Vere/Mandeville
> connection and which Mandeville are we talking about?

The Complete Peerage, in a pedigree (vol.7, p.677) just shows this couple "John, Constable of Chester, d.1190" (and says that it was John's son Roger who took the name of Lacy).

I have some more notes about Alice's identity, from various authors early this century (when it seems to have been a matter of controversy). Possibly there has been some more recent work that I'm not aware of!

Most of the information comes from an article by G.H.White [Geneal. Mag. vii 469 (1935-37)]. From the evidence of the Rotulus de Dominabus (pp.29,76) and the Pipe Rolls for 10 Richard I (p.118) and 1 John (p.207), John's wife is identified as Alice de Vere, the daughter of Alice of Essex. Although Dugdale misidentified her, Alice of Essex was the daughter of Aubrey de Vere (d.1141; the father of the first Earl of Oxford) and his wife Alice (the daughter of Gilbert FitzRichard of Clare and Tonbridge). Note that John's wife Alice is a rare example of a woman using her mother's maiden name as her surname.

According to White, Alice of Essex had three husbands:

(i) William de Sackville, Lord of Braxted, but he was claimed as husband by Aubreye, daughter of Geoffrey Tregoz, who alleged a pre-contract; although he and Alice fought the case, their marriage was dissolved [citing Round, Arch. J. lxiv 225; Hall, Court Life under the Plantagenets, pp.98-112].
(ii) Robert of Essex.
(iii) Roger Fitz Richard, Lord of Warkworth, a minor Baron, whom she also outlived [citing Round, Essex Arch. Soc. Trans. NS iii 245-47].

Opinions differ as to which of these husbands was the father of Alice "de Vere" the wife of John the constable: Round [Essex Arch. Soc. Trans. NS iii 248] believed that her father was Roger Fitz Richard; Farrer [Honors and Knights' Fees ii 201-2], followed by Wagner [Geneal. Mag. vii 471 (1935-37)], affiliated her to Robert de Essex.

White supports Round, for two reasons:
(i) In 1185 she held in dower Clavering, which belonged to the Honor of Rayleigh, and so came from the Honor of Essex. On her death it escheated to the Crown, the Honor of Rayleigh having been forfeited by Henry de Essex in 1163. Subsequently it was granted by the king to Robert Fitz Roger (her son by Roger Fitz Richard) [citing Essex Arch Soc Trans NS iii 247], which makes it unlikely there was issue living of her marriage to Robert of Essex.

(ii) Round [ibid] suggests that the elder Alice continued to style herself 'de Essex' because Robert de Essex was more important than Roger Fitz Richard, and because the latter had no surname. Likewise, White suggests, the younger Alice may have called herself 'de Vere' because her father had no surname and was of little importance compared with the de Veres.

That just leaves the question of why Alice de Vere is called the sister of William de Mandeville in your source. I haven't seen this statement before. I can only assume the confusion arose because the sister of Alice of Essex, Rohese, married Geoffrey de Mandeville and was the mother of William de Mandeville, the 3rd Earl of Essex. (Perhaps someone assumed that Alice de Vere's mother, Alice of Essex, must have been the Countess of Essex who was a de Vere by birth?).

I hope that information's not too out of date; I'd be interested to here if there's been more progress in the past 60 years, such as more definite evidence about the identity of Alice's father.

Chris Phillips


Alice married John Fitz Richard Baron of Halton, Constable of Cheshire, son of Richard Fitz Eustace Baron of Halton and Albreda de Lisoures.726 (John Fitz Richard Baron of Halton, Constable of Cheshire was born about 1130 in Halton Castle, Runcorn, Cheshire, England and died on 11 Oct 1190 in Tyre, Palestine 726.)


Comments
My New Mexico Roots & Native Roots - My New Mexico Roots - My link to the New England Pilgrim settlers & their link to a Web of English Ancestors
© Nancy López



Home | Table of Contents | Surnames | Name List

This Web Page was Updated 4 Mar 2009